Hello Natsci,

Thanks for clearing out, on my own behalf, and I shall honour you with a comment:
 

Quote Originally Posted by natsci View Post
It seems we are not welcome here. Quite how a community is going to spread it's message when people who aren't either sufferers of advocates are allowed to join in the debate, I don't know.

Just a parting thought, and this isn't meant to be snarky or patronising. Perhaps you need to consider the audience you are targeting. Whilst we may not be the people with the power to change the NHS and NICE, we are indicative of the type of people who are: highly analytical, logical and (generally) intelligent. Whilst some of the comments on both forums (fora?) would certainly not be part of a discussion, if anything could we not be seen as people to practise your arguments on? We are good people at heart, and just as we have to try to see things from your point of view, you have to try to see things from ours as well. It appears none of us have been particularly successful at that last point, perhaps something for both parties to work on in the future.

Wishing you all the very best for the future.

Personally, I am highly analytical, highly logical and highly intelligent, and have the degrees to prove it. Also, I am a regular reader of Christopher Iago's, Skeptic sites, and logical and analytical philosophy sites.

HOWEVER, I am also 60 minus a few days, I am since some 20 years in nearly constant pain, I am tired, I am poor, I have had no help for 32 years, and for the life of me I don't see why a patients and advocacy forum should bother at all with anonymous - I am sorry - apparent undergraduates from BS, who may, for all this psychologist knows, have hang-ups they either do not know or don't want to face up to.

I have looked at this BS-site, and found it disappointing, long before this business. Most of the persons there are either not really interested in real NATural SCIence or else know little of it. Which I don't mind, having been 20 myself, but which is no good reason to come here and act out an ill-based faith in "science" or a personal hang-up, and a good reason for people here to say, like I do:

No Thank You Very Much - the really geeky and nerdy types here are generally too ill and too cynical to want to discuss with anonymous non-ill "benevolent" arguefiers.

First show your academic status, age, university and name, and then, if you are of a level and age I take serious, I may honour you with some dialogue.

Without that, I must politely say to you and others, as medics have said to me - who is an excellent arguefier - "There Is The Opening Of The Door. Have A Nice Day!"

Maarten.

P.S. And as "to practising arguments on": Are you sure - in your own mind, dear - you haven't a swollen head? What makes you so special, or any of the anonymous people at BS? I've practised with non-anonymous specialists, not with anonymous types clearly in search of GAL, but failing.

Also, the problem is not that you or I are not able "to see things from your point of view":

The problem is simply that having seen BS and this thread, I don't see why I or anyone with ME should take anonymous persons from that site serious in any way, and spend time and pain on answering the questions they could for the most part have answered themselves by a few hours of serious reading - IF they were REALLY interested, for the truth of which qualifier one has only your bonny anonymously coloured honest eyes to go by.

Finally: I really wish you the best with learning (more) natural science: It's been one of the pleasures of my life, and I'd surely, like many on this list, have made an academic career if ME/CFS had been treated rationally, scientifically and legally.

Bye.